CRIME PREVENTION AND INTEGRATED JUSTICE SECTOR
7 February 2000
MEDIA BRIEFING

Documents Handed Out:
Justice Crime Prevention and Security Cluster Press Briefing
Media Briefing (Dept of Correctional Services)
Millennium 10 Point Plan (Dept of Justice & Constitutional Development)
Intelligence Programme 2000

Safety and Security Minister, Steve Tshwete, along with the Ministers of Intelligence (Joe Nhlanhla), Justice and Constitutional Development (Penuel Maduna), Correctional Services (Ben Skosana) and Home Affairs (Mangosuthu Buthelezi) delivered a cluster press briefing.

Here follows a synopsis report of the Ministers’ responses to media questions:

(Q) Is there any duplication between the Departments of Home Affairs and Security with regard to certain duties due to the clustering of these departments?

(A) Minister Tshwete: All Ministers attended a committee to ensure that services will not be duplicated.

(Q) Which communication signals, such as cellular phones, are going to be monitored, and how will it affect human rights?

(A) Minister Nhlanhla: Our country has a fragmented signal capability. We are not in a strong position in relation to the rest of the world. Fragmented equipment is easy to encroach upon and the international trend is toward consolidation. As we are looking at protecting the sovereignty of the country, a move toward consolidation is the best approach. The United States and the United Kingdom have long moved in this direction, and we must keep pace with the rest of the world. We will do what is necessary to prevent duplication, to save costs, and to create an impregnable signal capability. I assure everyone that the Intelligence Services is not interested in listening to "love conversations", but our main concern is to protect the integrity of the country.

(Q) Will powers be conferred on the police to detain someone, without a bail hearing for longer than 48 hours? How will information be extracted from suspects in such circumstances?

(A) Minister Tshwete: The legislation that we will be drafting will ensure that both stability and peace are maintained. It is not only the responsibility, but the obligation of the government and the state that people live in peace and safety. The government must ensure that there is no intimidation or harassment of its people. The Law Commission is attending to the matter of urban terrorism and they will advise the Department of Justice on specific issues. We will then legislate along those lines. This country is entrenched in democratic tradition and we will not return to the practices of the past. There will be not be any invasion on human rights under the proposed legislation. To ensure that the Constitutional principles are upheld, the Human Rights Commission has been invited to do research on this issue.

(Q) What is the success rate of the Scorpions? The problem seems to be the inability to apprehend and prosecute criminals. Shouldn’t the focus be on this rather than introducing new legislation?

(A) Minster Tshwete: We must visit all points of intersection, but explore alongside legislation that already exists. In addition to the new legislation, we must reinforce the existing measures, such as upgrading investigative skills, and giving priority to the issue of Human Resource Development. The Law Commission will be advising us. The relationship between the South African Police Services and the Scorpions is good, and in the Western Cape specifically, they are working together to uproot urban terrorism. There was tension between the two groups, but it has been managed successfully.

(Q) What is the progress with the interception of regulations monitoring cellular phones? Have you agreed with the service providers as to whom will pay for the equipment?

(A) Minster Maduna: We do monitor cellular phone calls, but only in accordance with the law, and strict instructions are given to personnel regarding this matter. Regarding who would pay for the equipment, little progress has been made but the State has an obligation to provide money to get the necessary equipment.

(Q) If the state is already able to monitor cellular phones, why do we need this legislation? Will this increase Government’s capability?

(A) The Ministers stated that two problems existed. Firstly, where electronic evidence was found at a crime scene, it was difficult to track down the owner of the cellular phone as the service providers had little personal information about the purchaser. Secondly, although the police were already intercepting cellular phone conversations, the problem was that they did not do so according to the prescribed procedure. This resulted in the evidence being inadmissable in court. Their intention is to strengthen the existing legislation.

(Q) What do you expect from the upcoming budget in terms of resources?

(A) Minister Tshwete: We are not happy with the budget. We indicated to the Minister of Finance that we need to strengthen crime prevention. The Cabinet has been very considerate, and we should be able to cope. The goodwill of the private sector is also very important. They have enabled the renovation of jails and police stations, and we are very eager to forge a partnership with them.

(Q) Last year, you stated that the main priority would be the effectiveness of the Courts. How far have you gotten in this regard?

(A) Minister Maduna: Certain research has been conducted. The results show that Regional Courts finalized 19876 cases, compared to High Courts which finalized only 875 cases. Thus, the High Courts only completed 4.4% of the volume of the work completed by the Regional Courts. In light of this, we have agreed to take senior court prosecutors who do High Court work to let them do Regional Court work as well. The Judge President of the High Court has highlighted problems for us to address. These include interpreters who are now being trained, and inexperienced new prosecutors who only receive two weeks training. These problems, amongst others, are now being addressed. Eventually, Judges and Magistrates should be able to take full charge of their Courts, as the system is being progressively overhauled.

(Q) Regarding the surveillance of the German Embassy in Pretoria, the message which the Government seems to be giving out is that they are not apologizing for spying, but rather for getting caught?

(A) Minister Nhlanhla: As a country, we must prepare ourselves. We must ask ourselves about the role of the Intelligence Department. Do the South African people regard the department as a national asset, as well as an organ that must ensure the sovereignty and safety of its people? We move from the premise that the Intelligence Department is an absolute necessity, and as such would not do things that would negatively affect the people of the country. The Intelligence Department contributed to the South Africa of today, and they are totally committed to good neighbourism and the development of the country. In this context, we greatly value Germany. We will not deliberately do anything that would cause frictions between this Government and any other governments. There have been meetings with German ambassadors, where it was agreed that the issue should not blown out of proportion, or tarnish our relations. These actions were done within the counter-intelligence mandate, and would have been taken by any other country in the world.

(Q) The issue is not what the Department did, but how they did it. The pattern that the Intelligence Department is creating is one of embarrassing incidents. How, in light of these incidents, can the people of South Africa have confidence in them?

(A) Mr Matthews: We must not only look at the failures of this department, but also at its successes. Intelligence services across the world have made mistakes, as they are run by humans, and humans are not infallible. In spite of these mistakes, these organisations are still well respected.

Minister Nhlanhla: The Intelligence Department has had many successes, including, protecting President Mandela at a time when he was receiving daily threats, bringing peace and security to South Africa, and ensuring free and safe elections post- apartheid. We are constantly updating and learning, and I am very proud of what the Department has accomplished. We can hold our own against any other intelligence service in the world.

Media briefing ends.