Discussion (Q) Please comment on the withdrawal of the Portuguese ambassador from SA.
(A) Minister Tshwete was surprised that the Portuguese government took the position that it did. The letter written to the Portuguese community was written with the view that it was for South Africans.
(Q) Will there be a review of the extradition laws?
(A) Minister Maduna: There will not be a change in the Extradition Act. South Africa has standard extradition laws. There is no need to change it. It is a safeguard available in the system so that we do not surrender people that South Africa does not want to surrender.
(Q) Please comment on the inaccuracy of statistics.
(A) Minister Tshwete: The statistics will not be released. This was not because they were trying to hide something. The statistics will only be released when the structures are in place to ensure that they are fairly accurate.
Minister Maduna demonstrated the inaccuracy with an example. As a cluster they saw statistics showing there was a 200% increase in cash-in-transit heists in a small village in the Eastern Cape. These statistics didn't seem to make sense as there are no banks in that area and they could not understand why the cash-in-transit statistics were so high. When they inquired they found that police in that area were actually referring to pick-pocketing on taxis as cash-in-transit heists. This is how the statistics are misleading to the reader and therefore inaccurate.
(Q) When is the Protected Disclosures Act going to be implemented?
(A) The President signed it at the end of last year. Mechanisms for implementation must still be put in place. It should come into effect very soon.
(Q) What is the status of the reports on corruption which the PAC instigated?
(A) Minister Skosana: the reports have been sent to the President for consideration. Two reports were tabled to Cabinet last week. In the report there were findings concerning the daily runnings of the Department. These are things that can be remedied. There were other findings that required working with other groups such as the SAPS. There is a team working on those findings and remedies. These findings will go public.
(Q) How many organised crime syndicates are operating in SA at the moment?
(A) There are approximately 400 of these operating inside SA but they have their origins outside the borders of SA. Last year they arrested 200 syndicate leaders. From July last year until now they arrested 2335 members.
(Q) When will the Access to Information Act and the Administrative Justice Act be implemented? When will the regulations be published and when will the information officers be appointed?
(A) Maduna: these should be implemented by the beginning of the last quarter of this year. The specific dates will vary.
(Q) In statistical reorganisation, are the structures at the top being reorganised or will there simply be an expansion of facilities. Specifically, will Mr De Kok be removed?
(A) Tshwete: Mr De Kok will not be removed. In fact, it is Mr De Kok that pointed out the statistical irregularities to the Minister. At this point the Minister called Mr De Kok to address the media.
Mr De Kok said that the detail of the crime statistics is the problem. There was a committee that analysed the problem and one of their primary findings was that the problem must be addressed at station level. The past week they have trained officials such as provincial heads, station commanders, area commanders and so forth in the field of analysis of crime information related to information technology.
In the middle of June this year the geographic information system should be in place. Statistics are a spin-off of operational analysis at station level.
(Q) When will the amendment to the Criminal Procedure Act be implemented.
(A) They were considering the constitutionality of the amendment. The police were unhappy in light of violent crime that they were facing. They may even go back to Parliament with it.
(Q) How does one combat criminal activity within the police force?
(A) This is a big problem. There is a handful of policemen involved in robbery and theft. There is a readiness to apprehend them. He gave an example of a policemen commander in Johannesburg who had recently been arrested. He noted that the Justice Department had a similar problem with regard to prosecutions. One example of this was that dockets would simply disappear.
They are addressing the issue seriously because these policemen pose a danger to other competent officers. One preventative measure is to give advice to metro recruitment people.
(Q) What is the nature of the relationship between the Scorpions and the SAPS
(A) Tshwete: different investigators are integrated into one unit. This is to concentrate focus and to enhance capacity at various levels.
Maduna: the relationship between the 2 is not as bad as people assumed. Initial training of the Scorpions was done by the police, they received their firearms from the police, and they received their handcuffs from the police. The Scorpions in their full might cannot handle basic policing. This is not their responsibility. It was never the Department’s intention for the Scorpions to replace the SAPS. They are specialised agents that work on organised crime. They can only complement the work done by the police.
(Q) Does ‘’arrest’’ as used by the cluster include ‘’prosecution’’?
(A) The 2 words are not synonomous. ‘’Arrest’’ refers to incarceration for not more 48 hours before appearing before a magistrate. Prosecution requires evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is no evidence then suspects cannot be kept imprisoned. If this is done it would amount to unlawful arrest and detention. The rate of convictions at regional and magistrates level is 86% and the rate of conviction at high court level is 67%. The key issue is investigation and swift prosecution. Conviction will act as a deterrent. They are trying to expedite the integration process. Also, the Justice Department must deal with the backlog.
(Q) How much money has the Department of Safety and Security paid out in terms of unlawful arrest?
(A) The exact amount is uncertain but they have been paying for cases which were initiated before he was Minister.
(Q) Is the number of high crime areas going to be reduced?
(A) Tshwete: The Scorpions and the police are working hard to reduce crime. There is a report on fraud and hijacking that is shocking. People involved in these crimes are respectable people who are supposed to be role models. There is legislation in place to deter criminals example the Asset Forfeiture Act. He added that the community must work with the police to reduce crime. People in townships for example would rather buy a stolen car than to go to a garage to buy one because it is cheaper. Citizens must not create markets for criminals.
(Q) What is being done to prevent children from becoming gang members.
(A) Communities must be mobilised. It is not the exclusive responsibility of the police. The gangsters enjoy the respect and support of the communities. There must be mobilisation amongst religious leadership, youth and schools to deal with the problem. This is closely associated with the drug problem. Some parents are involved with their children. The co-operation of parents is rare. The media must be used to get people behind the police. Many socio-economic problems must also be addressed. In this regard they are working with the social sector on urban renewal.
(Q) What is the perception on national crime trends?
(A) (SAPS representative) regarding general crime tendencies the new information which will come out will give them a better picture. Crimes like rape, assault, grievous bodily harm were not easily policeable. They need the co-operation of Welfare, Health and NGO’s as [they will have information on this]. More policable crimes such as common theft, street robbery and armed robbery is what they deal with. They pay special attention to armed robbery. They have a workable concept in respect of taxi violence, hijackings, and gangs. Common theft and ordinary robbery are related to socio-economic circumstances. They need employment to counter this. There is a R200million budget (from the provincial governments) to implement these plans.
(Q) When the Heath special investigating unit had completed its investigation what would it be replaced with?
(A) The Heath Unit was governed by law and when it had completed its task then it was no longer required. They are the responsibility of the Minister of Justice.
(Q) Has the handling of the arms deal enquiry damaged the government’s reputation?
(A) The handling of the arms deal has not dented the government. It has caused no damage to their image. It was handled simply. Everyone who had evidence of an offence could simply come forward and give it to the police. Judge Heath did not provide any information on who was responsible for corruption. This is because Judge Heath is fears that he will expose these people to intimidation, victimisation, or even death. To give Judge Heath a proclamation he has to be aware of all the facts, which Judge Heath did not give him. A lot of the information was speculative, therefore there was no investigation.