Parliamentary Media Briefing Remarks by Mangosuthu Buthelezi, Minister of Home Affairs, 20 September 2001 (see Appendix)

(A) The Immigration Bill was considered to be a "money bill and Mr Buthelezi had written to the Speaker to tell her so. He hoped there would not be a conflict between organs of State, in which case he would have to go to the Constitutional Court.

(Q) Could Mr Buthelezi explain the concept of a "money Bill" for those did not understand?

(A) Sections 75 and 76 of the Constitution makes the distinction between the different Bills clear. It was the opinion of 2 senior counsels that the Bill was not a money Bill. There is a lot of legislation where fees are paid and merely because fees are involved does not make it a "money Bill".

(Q) It was recently heard that the Director-General and Auditor-General had had a falling out. Could this be considered an indication that there was a lack of co-operation experienced in the Department of Home Affairs?

(A) Mr Buthelezi was not aware of any such occurrence although he was aware that a problem existed within the department that needed to be resolved.

(Q) Have the problems regarding the Director-General's contract been resolved?

(A) The matter was now entirely in the hands of the parliamentary committee. He had brought the matter to the President's attention and was now waiting for a reply.

(Q) Based on the Minister's reply a lot of people would ask why the Minister was still in Cabinet seeing that he did not have the support of the ANC?

(A) Mr Buthelezi did not feel that he did not have the support of the ANC.

(Q) Did he feel that he was being hamstrung by his colleagues in the ANC?

(A) It would not be fair to say so but the Immigration Bill had taken a long time going through the Cabinet process. The Bill was now in the ball park of Parliament and they could deal with it as they see fit.

(Q) How do the regulations in the Immigration Bill involve the bringing in of foreign skills?

(A) Often a great deal was said about skills but the function of attracting skills into the country was the function of the people and the Department of Trade and Industry and not the Department of Home Affairs - its duty extended only to removing hindrances. He would be having a meeting with the Minister of Trade and Industry to discuss how to help attract skills to the country. At present the Department of Home Affairs was working under the old Aliens Control Act which the Minster had taken to Court twice and lost. It was his opinion that the Act was not constitutional. He felt that he had done everything that needed to be done and was just as troubled by the hitches.

(Q) Was there a target date for the integration of the Births, Deaths and Marriage register?

(A) The matter was currently being discussed. The problem was that the infrastructure to implement it was lacking but where the infrastructure exists it was being put in process.

(Q) Would this be the responsibility of Home Affairs or the local municipalities?

(A) It would be devolved to the municipalities.

(Q) The Immigration Bill is a political issue and as the Deputy Minister is an ANC member, what was his opinion and his party's view in facilitating the Bill?

(A) The Deputy Minister replied that he couldn't be expected to answer on behalf of his party. The Bill originated with the Ministery and Home Affairs and he was acting in his capacity of Deputy Minister and not on behalf of his party.

(Q) Could the Minister clarify the Director-General issue?

(A) The Minister was not prepared to discuss the issue at a media briefing.

(Q) When would the relevant papers regarding the Director-General be released?

(A) The papers must be requested from the department. They would not be distributed.

(Q) There is a political aspect involved with the Immigration Bill. Where does the Deputy Minister stand on the issue in terms of the Money Bill allegation? Has it been discussed with his party since at the end of the day it must be discussed with his party?

(A) The Deputy Minister responded that as a member of the cabinet he was a party to the discussions held by Cabinet and the Bill was submitted to parliament from Cabinet. The Money Bill issue had gone from the Speaker to the Minister and was receiving an appropriate response according to the correct procedures.

Appendix:
PARLIAMENTARY MEDIA BRIEFING BY THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS, MANGOSUTHU BUTHELEZI, Cape Town, 20 September 2001

Members of the media and representatives of the Diplomatic Corps.

On 9 February this year, President Mbeki delivered his State-of-the-Nation Address in Parliament, outlining the direction in which Government was to proceed in 2001 in pursuit of the objective of a better life for all. In this presentation, I will endeavour to give an overview of the contributions of the Department of Home Affairs towards this objective of working together for a better future for all South Africans.

When outlining the economic strategies of this programme of action, President Mbeki specifically referred to the fact that "immigration laws and procedures will be reviewed urgently to enable us to attract skills into our country." In this regard, I am glad to report that the Immigration Bill was eventually passed by the Cabinet and is currently going through the parliamentary process. The new system of migration control expressed by the Immigration Bill that is now before Parliament will provide a comprehensive structural rearrangement of migration control and the Department. We will have the opportunity to re-design our Department in respect of migration control, and to adjust it to the changed requirements of the new legislation. The restructuring of migration control will also offer the opportunity to commence the process of planning the devolution of the delivery aspects of civic affairs to municipalities. Moreover, the simpler requirements for the issuance of temporary and permanent residence permits and the decentralisation of their issuance will free administrative capacity, which we intend to divert towards law enforcement and refugee affairs.

The Bill has received wide support in civil society, in spite of being part of what will always remain a controversial field, and I trust that we may fulfil the intention that the President expressed in his State-of-the-Nation address this year, that the Bill be passed through the parliamentary process in the current year. My Department and the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs will work hand in hand in processing this Bill and I have assured the Committee that I and my staff will be available at all times to provide whatever assistance the Committee may require in this task, which I know from experience to be a very difficult and complex one.

While the enactment of this Bill is being finalised my Department is constantly working towards improving the quality of services currently being rendered in the immigration sphere.

The Department of Home Affairs has often been criticised that immigration applications in respect of foreign investors and entrepreneurs take too long to finalise. The procedures I implemented during 1999 to fast track these applications are still in place. However, the budgetary and personnel constraints the Department experiences, resulted in a backlog of immigration applications in certain provinces. To address the matter, I promulgated Resolutions in December 1999 and again in April 2000, which allowed for officials of the Department to finalise straightforward immigration applications and the Immigrants Selection Committees to concentrate on the applications of foreigners who wish to be employed in the RSA and those who wish to establish businesses. The Resolutions of April 2000 are, in fact, still in place and even the Department of Home Affairs' Head Office is involved in the process of finalising as many applications as possible.

There is a growing awareness amongst Home Affairs officials regarding the constitutional implications of present migration legislation. Decisions were previously based purely on the interpretation of Departmental policy or legislation, which sometimes resulted in hasty decisions, often with disastrous consequences. It, however, became evident that the recommended solutions in problematic cases are these days extensively debated in terms of the constitutional rights of the persons concerned and court rulings against the Department.

My Department is in the process of computerising its visa system, as part of our efforts to improve service delivery, but also to improve the integrity of the system. The visa system entails the capturing of data of a visa applicant on computer in the foreign mission where the application is lodged and transferring the data via Head Office to the ports of entry. Once a person enters through these ports of entry, his/her particulars are already available to the immigration officer, thus expediting the clearance process and eliminating forgeries. This computerised visa system is already implemented at 54 SA missions abroad. The implementation of a further 23 new missions and the upgrading of 12 existing missions are scheduled for the current financial year. It is foreseen that the project will continue for another year, by which time the system at all the missions will have been computerised. Thirty-four missions are already using Internet communication that is substantially cheaper than normal data lines.

Since the introduction of the service delivery standard of issuing visas within 10 days of application, the South African missions abroad have issued visas within the 10 days period at a success rate of 95%. This is indeed an achievement that we are proud of and can be regarded as an indication of my Department's commitment towards service delivery improvement.

Most of the delegates attending the NGO Forum and the World Conference Against Racism (WCAR) in Durban recently were issued and arrived with the necessary visas. Special arrangements were implemented to accommodate those who arrived without the necessary visas.

Computerisation of border posts is also taking place as part of my Department's efforts to improve services. Fifty-one of the sixty computerised border posts are already transferring data of travellers via satellite, six ports of entry (including Johannesburg International Airport) make use of FTP (File Transfer Protocol) communication and three ports of entry transfer data via modem communication. These transfers take place on a daily basis and substantially reduce the delays in capturing the data on the main frame.

The current Home Affairs system suffers from being, in essence, a conglomeration of largely redundant separate systems, requiring a large amount of additional manual work to produce the required information. Because of technical problems with the collection and storage of data, information is not always up to date and there have been serious delays in the past in the provision of information.

The need to update the system grows more urgent daily, but efforts to update it have failed, largely due to the lack of funds. Even though Departments are working together to rectify the matter, their combined resources fall far short of the funds needed. The phasing in of the re-write of the system will enjoy a high priority during this financial year.

As a further effort at improving service delivery, the Minister of Home Affairs of Mozambique and I agreed that the creation of a one-stop border post at Lebombo/Ressano Garcia, utilising the current facilities, would be investigated. The proposed sharing of facilities on both sides of the border would make provision for the traveller departing from the RSA to stop at the current South African facility for immigration and customs clearance out of South Africa and proceed into Mozambique without having to drive and stop again. The same procedure, in reverse, would be repeated on the Mozambican side for travellers departing from that country.

The implementation of the one-stop border post is subject to the conclusion of an international agreement which makes provision for the application of national legislation on the territory of another state as well as the availability of funds to alter the existing office space.

In my Budget Appropriation Debate in May this year, I referred to measures introduced to keep abreast with prevailing circumstances pertaining to temporary residence matters. These measures had the desired effect and currently there is no backlog in respect of temporary residence permits.

I have also instructed the Department that foreign spouses of South African citizens and permanent residents must be allowed to work within South Africa and that they be eligible for work permits free of charge, while the renewal of their permits will also be entertained free of charge. It should be noted that such spouses must lodge an application for an immigration permit within ninety-days from the date of receipt of a temporary residence permit.

Measures are also currently in place to accommodate the residence of life partners in South Africa. I recently reviewed and extended the cut-off date of 19 March 2001 for life partners of South African citizens or permanent residents to apply for an extension of their exemptions. These life partners have the opportunity to work in South Africa and to apply for permanent residence. All these interim measures will be dealt with in the new legislation once enacted.

The President also mentioned in his State-of-the-Nation Address the importance of taking the necessary steps to push back the frontiers of racism and xenophobia. Concerning the latter, my Department has a specific role to play and indeed endeavours to do so. Our current immigration system reflects the previous mind set and limited needs of a country in international isolation, which was suspicious of foreigners. Within the short span of a few years we had to re-think new systems of immigration control which we are now in the process of bringing about legislatively, through legislation now pending before Parliament. In fact, the Immigration Bill introduces for the first time, the statutory function of fighting xenophobia and lodges it within the Department which must become aware of this evil, both in respect of activities within society as well as that which concerns its own internal workings.

We also had to integrate within our system, and metabolise within our administrative practice and national awareness, the international prescripts of refugee law and develop our own refugee legislation. This year marks the first anniversary of the implementation of the Refugees Act (130) of 1998 and its attendant Regulations. To mark the occasion, the Department of Home Affairs and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) embarked on a series of road shows, starting in April 2001, to the Gauteng and the Western Cape Provinces in order to sensitise communities about the plight of refugees in South Africa. The road shows will be concluded in October 2001 in Durban and Port Elizabeth and will hopefully contribute towards curbing xenophobia amongst South Africans who sometimes have difficulty in distinguishing between refugees and illegal or undocumented migrants.

Regarding reference in the President's address to coordinated programmes by the social sector in nodal rural and urban areas focused on the social upliftment of the most disadvantaged in our society, I can report that my Department is contributing in this regard, inter alia by improving access to Home Affairs services. I have referred before to my Department's process of re-evaluating the present location of its network of offices to endeavour to align this with the new municipal areas. I have often stated that the long-term strategic vision is that of devolving the delivery of civic affairs services to municipalities, so that people will be able to receive their IDs and birth, marriage and death certificates from their city hall. This is the only rational way to redress the spatial imbalance in the present distribution of our offices while improving on overall efficiency. In fact, municipal offices could be used as a one-stop service for a variety of delegated national services as well as compatible municipal functions. As happened when I first launched the reform of our migration system, I am again experiencing internal friction and resistance. I have instructed our Chief Director of Strategic Planning to produce a detailed strategy and plan to bring this about and to coordinate to this end with the Department of Provincial and Local Government, and I am awaiting results.

Pending the overall reform of the delivery of civic affairs services, as a further step in this direction, we have now cooperated closely with the Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) and utilised their state of the art Geographical Information System to ensure that the placement of offices of Home Affairs are in fact correlated with the population distribution. We are also continuing with the process of negotiating with local and rural authorities for co-operation in the rendering of civic services. These negotiations have met with positive responses from several quarters and very recently, we have entered into an agreement with the Hlaneki and Homu Tribal Authorities in the Northern Province to use their premises to provide some of the Department's services. An office at Hlaneki Tribal Authority became operational from 1 August 2001. Offices at Homu Tribal Authority and Jane Furse Hospital became operational on 3 September 2001.

The Hlaneki Tribal Authority, consisting of six villages, is home to more than 80 000 people who always had to travel long distances to access Home Affairs services. Adjacent villages will also benefit from this initiative.

Personnel and equipment will be provided from the Giyani and Lebowakgomo Regional Offices of the Department respectively. Computerisation of these offices will be effected as soon as possible.

Preliminary discussions with the Mayors of the Greater Metropolitan Councils of Johannesburg, Tshwane and Mogale also took place with the purpose of possible securing Home Affairs office accommodation from the different councils. Negotiations in this regard are continuing.

Through these partnerships, the Department is complying with the Batho Pele principle of accessibility and aligning its objectives with the integrated rural development strategy of government. Earlier this year, at the opening of the Mpuluzi MPCC in Mpumalanga, I also committed myself to co-operating closely with the GCIS initiative to establish Multi-Purpose Community Centres (MPCCs) to integrate service delivery at community level, especially in rural areas. MPCCs have allowed for close collaboration between national, provincial and local governments, as these centres are homes for government services in different spheres. My Department is involved in all the MPCCs currently operational and will participate in all future MPCCs to be established.

A strategic decision taken earlier this year as part of our efforts to improve service delivery was that the Population Register would need to be re-written, as the integrity of the current system had become questionable. The National Population Register (NPR) is the backbone system of the Department of Home Affairs and is used as the initial front desk input and queries environment regarding all departmental transactions for the South African public. No birth, marriage or death certificates can be issued or printed without this system, as the NPR maintains the central data repository containing all demographic information related to the individual. The NPR can therefore be regarded as the main data transport vehicle for the Directorate: Civic Services. In the long run, the revamping of our Population Register and the HANIS project will constitute the backbone enabling central government to delegate the delivery of civic affairs to municipalities without jeopardising quality standards of delivery or the integrity of the system.

This system is also used by the insurance and banking industry to verify and validate deaths. It has been calculated that the availability of this service to the Insurance sector has saved the sector in the region of R22 million to R30 million per annum in fraud prevention.

Based on evaluations and analysis of the NPR environment, it was concluded that the largest contributing factor to the Department's service impact and business process cost, is the current, largely manual records and archiving environment, which is utilised by all components of the Department for verification, validation and Information processing. High level calculations performed for the Chief Directorate: Civic Services indicate that the budget impact caused by the largely manual records environment can be between R200 million and R400 million per annum. Since the records environment is the foundation platform for the NPR and all additional Home Affairs systems and processes, it was decided that a document management system should be addressed first.

During July 2000, we approved the implementation of a transversal, online records system for the Department that will provide the following:

* Replacement of the current microfilm and paper records environment, which is utilising excessive floor space within all the Home Affairs offices throughout the country;
* A large reduction in the cost of business transactions to the Department;
* Expansive fraud and corruption reduction relating to all systems and business processes of the Department;
* Effective front-desk client service, thus improving the responsiveness and public image of the Department;
* Effective movement of the greater portion of the Department's workload to the front-desk, which will relieve Head Office staff members of the current backlog and workload and effectively improve transaction turnaround times;
* Effective and fast queries and verifications, due to greatly improved system response times;
* Greatly reduced workload for all Home Affairs staff members, permitting these staff members to attend to other important work;
* Information accuracy and integrity, due to the visual nature of the system;
* Simplification of all business processes e.g. the issuing of unabridged birth, death and marriage certificates, as well as citizen and permanent residence verification and authentication; and
* A centralised and standardised records system, which will remove the need for the numerous costly point solutions currently utilised. This will reduce the overall cost impact to the Department of Home Affairs for these systems.

Although it is essential to implement the system as soon as possible, it was suggested that the workload be spread over a greater period. A tender for the acquisition and implementation of the first phase of an online Document Management System was published during May 2001. The evaluation of the tender responses received is currently in process.

The intention is to have a contract for this in place towards the end of October 2001.

In my Budget Appropriation speech in May this year, I reported on the dire straits in which the Department of Home Affairs finds itself with respect to human resources. This view was also confirmed in the Public Service Commission's Report, "Home Affairs Batho Pele and Management Audit Investigations 2000", which states that the Department requires an additional 1 063 posts on its establishment to render an efficient service. I also reported on the process of filling 231 critical posts within the Department. This process will be finalised soon and National Treasury has fortunately made available the necessary funds required for this for the current financial year. I also spoke about the need for a scientifically based staff establishment for the Department to be compiled, taking into account not where we were six years ago, but where we wish to be in five to fifteen years. The Department of Public Service and Administration has since indicated that they are prepared to undertake this investigation with no cost to the Department, utilising donor funds.

My Department will also need to attend to the policy formulation necessary to rewrite the electoral law. Present legislation has given the Independent Electoral Commission the power and function to review existing legislation to propose amendments which may be necessary based on the practical experience gained from running the last elections. However, the drafting of a new electoral law, which is demanded by our Constitution, is the expression of the policy responsibility of the Executive and cannot be conducted by a Chapter 9 independent institution such as our Electoral Commission. For this reason, and to ensure that a transparent and all-inclusive process of policy formulation could take place, I took the initiative of proposing the appointment of a task team to be headed by Dr. F van Zyl Slabbert. After some uncertainty and U-turns, the notion that such task team should exist and that it should be headed by Dr van Zyl Slabbert has finally been adopted, as was confirmed by the President. However, this task team has not been established yet, nor has it begun its work, owing to a process which must first be completed and which now rests with the Deputy President. This process will primarily consist of consultations among political parties on certain issues to be identified by the Deputy President. As soon as the process is complete, and based on whatever guidance I may receive, I expect to be in a position to give Dr van Zyl Slabbert and his team the long-awaited go-ahead.

In conclusion, my Department and I are committed to contributing towards improving the lives of the people of South Africa, inter alia, through constantly improving access to and the quality of services that we render. If the progress in this regard seems slow, please bear in mind the severe financial and human resource restraints under which my Department needs to function, and know that we are doing everything within our power to ensure a better life for all.

The Minister stated that because of the argument that the Justice Department was not being properly funded, it had been decided after a long time to ask for professional assistance to find out exactly how much the administration of justice costs. A tender had been put out in this regard.

Referring to the strike by prosecutors, the Minister said that although he may be unhappy with the court's decision that the strike is illegal, he could comment on it since he had not received the judgment. He had appealed to the prosecutors to come back as they were not going to be paid for the days that they were on strike. Although only half of the amount of people who work had gone on strike, 1049 work days had been lost and R444 963 in salaries. The problem was not one that could be solved by the department. Packages were not set by the department but by the Public Services Department. What has become apparent is that even with the loss of half their workforce, the department had coped with the increased load of work without any disruption. This showed that the job could be done with fewer persons. The Minister thanked private sector lawyers who had agreed to work at government rates and also those patriots who had offered to work free of charge.

The Minister then went on to speak of the Bill that was currently before parliament. The Constitutional Amendment Bills were in the hands of the Portfolio Committee who were still busy with it and the Minister would therefore not go into much detail on them. What the Minister did find disturbing was the misconception that the purpose of the Bill was to accommodate one judge. This was not so as the issues raised by the Bill would have addressed at some time and the Bill was therefore unavoidable. There were only two reasons given in opposition to the Bill: world trend with regard to Constitutional Courts does not support the Bill and permanent tenure would not be desirable as changes might need to be affected further down the line. The Minister did not agree and felt that there was no such thing as life tenure - all judges would have to retire at some time. He was monitoring parliament and believed that the Portfolio Committee would make the right decision. Limited tenure applies to those 6 judges who went into the Court laterally and does not apply to those who came in from the lower courts. This gap has to be addressed. There is no sinister intention behind wanting to

Change the tenure, there is logic behind what is being done.

Regarding the Interception and Monitoring Bill, the Minister was happy that thought provoking ideas have emerged. But there is an Act that already exists that caters for interception and monitoring. The Bill only served to improve the current legislation. The 1993 Act has served South Africa well, but technology has progressed so quickly that it needs to be taken into account. The Bill is new. Interception and monitoring does take legally. Law-abiding citizens have nothing to worry about. There law is there for criminals alone.

The International Criminal Court Bill - South Africa as a country was committed to the Rome Statute and the Bill was placed before Parliament in order to make the Statute part of South African Law. Very soon the Rome Statute would have sufficient ratifications to make it international law.

There was much debate over the Terrorism legislation. It was felt that the Bill's purpose was to target PAGAD. This was not so. The department was acting within the auspices of the UN. In 2002 a UN Conference on terrorism would take place to discuss, among other issues, the definition of terrorism and mechanisms of controlling it. In light of the upcoming Conference, the Minister had asked his own commission to investigate the issue. There was a good body of common law dealing with this matter. The Bill would be in keeping with international law and the Constitution. Anybody who argues against it must look at the Constitution that says that no law is law unless it is in line with the Constitution. The Bill would not mean a return to the old days or the old concept of terrorism which applied solely to those who targeting apartheid. At present if a bomb is set off by a person shouting slogans there was no law to deal with it. He would have to be charged with arson or murder etc. terrorism as such does not yet exist as a crime in South Africa.

The changed management process in the department was going well. Certain elements need to be addressed e.g. regional officers. The intention was to shift lawyers to the "cold phase". There were certain difficulties being experienced and there was a need to be sensitive to the people, with regard to such things as packages, but there is also a need to direct people elsewhere and to open up space to do work that needs to be done.

Regarding the separation of powers, judges had commented on the fact that magistrates perform many other functions apart from their magisterial duties and the department wanted to appoint people to take over those extra functions. There was a phase in/phase out process that was currently being implemented. For example, in Durban a court managers had been appointed.

On the issue of the electronic justice process, the department was looking for a date in late October when this system could be demonstrated to the President. The system would provide for a judge and the prosecutor to have their own computer in the courtroom and also in their offices. The police would also be put through the same demonstration exercise where it will be shown what will happen to a person from the time he enters the justice system until he moves onto Correctional Services. If all the documents were put online, it would become useless to bribe policemen for dockets.

Regarding finance management, Alan McKenzie was now working for them and the department was in the process of training their own managers. Embarrassing episodes had occurred but they were in the process of being eliminated.

On access to infrastructure, court facilities were being built where there were none and those that already exist were being improved. Eight years later there is still a huge difference between South African courts and those of the former Bantu homelands. For example, in Durban there is a high-rise complex housing the magistrates court but in Kwa-Mashu just outside Durban there is no court facility - a school was being utilised at the moment. The department was currently carrying out talks with Public Works in this regard as any money that parliament allocates to the department is housed elsewhere.

On the issue of security for personnel, the department was working with police to ensure that those who need security have it, but it was evident that each and every person would not be able to be protected. There would be a regular review of those who need protection. This much was owed to the two magistrates who were killed. The killers of which are now in prison.

Questions by the media and replies from Minister, Penuel Meduna

(Q) If a comprise on the judges tenure comes out of parliament would the department agree to it?

(A) Yes, if it was a workable compromise the department would not be against it. It has been proposed that the younger judges, after they had served their terms, would go back to the lower courts. The problem is that they would then receive a lower salary and this should not be the case.

(Q) Regarding the Terrorism Bill, would the department wait until the results of the UN Conference in order to get a definition for the Bill or not?

(A) The Bill was part and parcel of the UN process. In addition, the Law Commission was required to research this question. It was known more or less where the UN was going so it was felt that there was no need to wait or else it would be impossible to confront terrorism as terrorism.

(Q) Why should Constitutional Court judges have a fixed tenure and not others?

(A) Other judges, with the exception of those on the labour courts, do have fixed tenure. In the labour courts this had created a problem as judges could not be found who would want to be on the labour court. There were always acting judges because of the question of tenure was uncertain. There is an amendment that will try to cater for this come to parliament soon. If this problem was not addressed at the higher lever soon, a real problem could be created.

(Q) In connection with the happenings on Black Tuesday, would South Africa be backing the US? Would Moslems seeking sanctuary in South Africa not be supported, bearing in mind the large Moslem community in South Africa?

(A) Everybody responsible for the attack will have to be found and South Africa must co-operate with the world to ensure that they are punished if found in South Africa. It was hoped that our law would not be restraining in this respect.

(Q) What was the status on the final TRC report and the final report on reparations? Would the final report be released later this month?

(A) The Director-General would have to answer the question on reparations as he did not have the figures with him. The Minister would only know what the final report on reparations would be after it was obtained from parliament. On the release of the final TRC report the Minister had to discuss the issue with Archbishop Tutu but he did not think that it would be this month.

The Director-General added that the final figure on reparations would be determined by the number of people who applied for it.

(Q) If somebody commits an act of terrorism, what would they be charged with and is the Internal Security Act still in place?

(A) Only a small part of the Act was still in place, for example s54 but that did not apply to international terrorism. At present the common law would be used.

(Q) Could the Minister provide a timeframe for the completion of the Bill?

(A) No, the time taken would depend on the research. South Africa did not want to be "caught napping" if perpetrators of international terrorism were found in South Africa. For example, the perpetrators of the bombing of the American embassy in Tanzania were found in Cape Town.

(Q) At the time of notification of the Terrorism Bill, people were worried about the threat of detention without trial. How will events in the US effect this?

(A) The Minister stated that he himself had been detained twice without trial for a period no less than 6 months under the old terrorism legislation. Through his own personal experience he has come to hate detention without trial and it would therefore not be in the Bill. In addition, the Constitution requires apprehended persons to be brought before a court within 48 hours and the Terrorism Bill would not go against that. Under the old legislation, judges could not object to the actions of the police, but South Africa could not now return to that policy. The Bill would address terrorism but not take away from South Africa's hard-won human rights.

Briefing Ended