GCIS MINISTERIAL MEDIA BRIEFING
Minister of Justice and Constitutional Affairs
20 September 2001

Documents handed out:
Parliamentary Media Briefing Remarks by Penuel Maduna, Minister of Justice and Constitutional Affairs, 20 September 2001

Minister’s Briefing
The Minister stated that because of the argument that the Justice Department was not being properly funded, it had been decided after a long time to ask for professional assistance to find out exactly how much the administration of justice costs. A tender had been put out in this regard.

Referring to the strike by prosecutors, the Minister said that although he may be unhappy with the court's decision that the strike is illegal, he could comment on it since he had not received the judgment. He had appealed to the prosecutors to come back as they were not going to be paid for the days that they were on strike. Although only half of the amount of people who work had gone on strike, 1049 work days had been lost and R444 963 in salaries. The problem was not one that could be solved by the department. Packages were not set by the department but by the Public Services Department. What has become apparent is that even with the loss of half their workforce, the department had coped with the increased load of work without any disruption. This showed that the job could be done with fewer persons. The Minister thanked private sector lawyers who had agreed to work at government rates and also those patriots who had offered to work free of charge.

The Minister then went on to speak of the Bill that was currently before parliament. The Constitutional Amendment Bills were in the hands of the Portfolio Committee who were still busy with it and the Minister would therefore not go into much detail on them. What the Minister did find disturbing was the misconception that the purpose of the Bill was to accommodate one judge. This was not so as the issues raised by the Bill would have addressed at some time and the Bill was therefore unavoidable. There were only two reasons given in opposition to the Bill: world trend with regard to Constitutional Courts does not support the Bill and permanent tenure would not be desirable as changes might need to be affected further down the line. The Minister did not agree and felt that there was no such thing as life tenure - all judges would have to retire at some time. He was monitoring parliament and believed that the Portfolio Committee would make the right decision. Limited tenure applies to those 6 judges who went into the Court laterally and does not apply to those who came in from the lower courts. This gap has to be addressed. There is no sinister intention behind wanting to
Change the tenure, there is logic behind what is being done.

Regarding the Interception and Monitoring Bill, the Minister was happy that thought provoking ideas have emerged. But there is an Act that already exists that caters for interception and monitoring. The Bill only served to improve the current legislation. The 1993 Act has served South Africa well, but technology has progressed so quickly that it needs to be taken into account. The Bill is new. Interception and monitoring does take legally. Law-abiding citizens have nothing to worry about. There law is there for criminals alone.

The International Criminal Court Bill - South Africa as a country was committed to the Rome Statute and the Bill was placed before Parliament in order to make the Statute part of South African Law. Very soon the Rome Statute would have sufficient ratifications to make it international law.

There was much debate over the Terrorism legislation. It was felt that the Bill's purpose was to target PAGAD. This was not so. The department was acting within the auspices of the UN. In 2002 a UN Conference on terrorism would take place to discuss, among other issues, the definition of terrorism and mechanisms of controlling it. In light of the upcoming Conference, the Minister had asked his own commission to investigate the issue. There was a good body of common law dealing with this matter. The Bill would be in keeping with international law and the Constitution. Anybody who argues against it must look at the Constitution that says that no law is law unless it is in line with the Constitution. The Bill would not mean a return to the old days or the old concept of terrorism which applied solely to those who targeting apartheid. At present if a bomb is set off by a person shouting slogans there was no law to deal with it. He would have to be charged with arson or murder etc. terrorism as such does not yet exist as a crime in South Africa.

The changed management process in the department was going well. Certain elements need to be addressed e.g. regional officers. The intention was to shift lawyers to the "cold phase". There were certain difficulties being experienced and there was a need to be sensitive to the people, with regard to such things as packages, but there is also a need to direct people elsewhere and to open up space to do work that needs to be done.

Regarding the separation of powers, judges had commented on the fact that magistrates perform many other functions apart from their magisterial duties and the department wanted to appoint people to take over those extra functions. There was a phase in/phase out process that was currently being implemented. For example, in Durban a court managers had been appointed.

On the issue of the electronic justice process, the department was looking for a date in late October when this system could be demonstrated to the President. The system would provide for a judge and the prosecutor to have their own computer in the courtroom and also in their offices. The police would also be put through the same demonstration exercise where it will be shown what will happen to a person from the time he enters the justice system until he moves onto Correctional Services. If all the documents were put online, it would become useless to bribe policemen for dockets.

Regarding finance management, Alan McKenzie was now working for them and the department was in the process of training their own managers. Embarrassing episodes had occurred but they were in the process of being eliminated.

On access to infrastructure, court facilities were being built where there were none and those that already exist were being improved. Eight years later there is still a huge difference between South African courts and those of the former Bantu homelands. For example, in Durban there is a high-rise complex housing the magistrates court but in Kwa-Mashu just outside Durban there is no court facility - a school was being utilised at the moment. The department was currently carrying out talks with Public Works in this regard as any money that parliament allocates to the department is housed elsewhere.

On the issue of security for personnel, the department was working with police to ensure that those who need security have it, but it was evident that each and every person would not be able to be protected. There would be a regular review of those who need protection. This much was owed to the two magistrates who were killed. The killers of which are now in prison.

Questions by the media and replies from Minister Penuel Meduna
(Q) If a comprise on the judges tenure comes out of parliament would the department agree to it?

(A) Yes, if it was a workable compromise the department would not be against it. It has been proposed that the younger judges, after they had served their terms, would go back to the lower courts. The problem is that they would then receive a lower salary and this should not be the case.

(Q) Regarding the Terrorism Bill, would the department wait until the results of the UN Conference in order to get a definition for the Bill or not?

(A) The Bill was part and parcel of the UN process. In addition, the Law Commission was required to research this question. It was known more or less where the UN was going so it was felt that there was no need to wait or else it would be impossible to confront terrorism as terrorism.

(Q) Why should Constitutional Court judges have a fixed tenure and not others?

(A) Other judges, with the exception of those on the labour courts, do have fixed tenure. In the labour courts this had created a problem as judges could not be found who would want to be on the labour court. There were always acting judges because of the question of tenure was uncertain. There is an amendment that will try to cater for this come to parliament soon. If this problem was not addressed at the higher lever soon, a real problem could be created.

(Q) In connection with the happenings on Black Tuesday, would South Africa be backing the US? Would Moslems seeking sanctuary in South Africa not be supported, bearing in mind the large Moslem community in South Africa?

(A) Everybody responsible for the attack will have to be found and South Africa must co-operate with the world to ensure that they are punished if found in South Africa. It was hoped that our law would not be restraining in this respect.

(Q) What was the status on the final TRC report and the final report on reparations? Would the final report be released later this month?

(A) The Director-General would have to answer the question on reparations as he did not have the figures with him. The Minister would only know what the final report on reparations would be after it was obtained from parliament. On the release of the final TRC report the Minister had to discuss the issue with Archbishop Tutu but he did not think that it would be this month.
The Director-General added that the final figure on reparations would be determined by the number of people who applied for it.

(Q) If somebody commits an act of terrorism, what would they be charged with and is the Internal Security Act still in place?

(A) Only a small part of the Act was still in place, for example s54 but that did not apply to international terrorism. At present the common law would be used.

(Q) Could the Minister provide a timeframe for the completion of the Bill?

(A) No, the time taken would depend on the research. South Africa did not want to be "caught napping" if perpetrators of international terrorism were found in South Africa. For example, the perpetrators of the bombing of the American embassy in Tanzania were found in Cape Town.

(Q) At the time of notification of the Terrorism Bill, people were worried about the threat of detention without trial. How will events in the US effect this?

(A) The Minister stated that he himself had been detained twice without trial for a period no less than 6 months under the old terrorism legislation. Through his own personal experience he has come to hate detention without trial and it would therefore not be in the Bill. In addition, the Constitution requires apprehended persons to be brought before a court within 48 hours and the Terrorism Bill would not go against that. Under the old legislation, judges could not object to the actions of the police, but South Africa could not now return to that policy. The Bill would address terrorism but not take away from South Africa's hard-won human rights.

Appendix:
PARLIAMENTARY MEDIA BRIEFING BY MINISTER OF JUSTICE & CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT, MR PENUELL MADUNA, 20 September 2001

In my budget speech late last year, I addressed some of the key challenges facing the Department and how we are responding to them. I am therefore going to take this opportunity to deal with some of our achievements to date.

Please allow me first to deal with some of the issues currently making news headlines.

1. STRIKE BY STATE ATTORNEYS

We all know about yesterdays' decision by the Labour Court that the current strike by State Attorneys was legal. We accept that and have respect for the court's decision. The Department is willing to re-evaluate the salaries of its officials. A task team headed by the CFO has been put in place to look at the restructuring the salaries of all officials of the Department. In order to expedite this matter, the Department has issued a tender on 14 September 2001, with the view to get expects to assist us in this regard and the closing date is tomorrow, 21 September 2001. I hope that the process will be finalised by the end of the year. I am therefore appealing to the State Attorneys to return to work so that the discussions around their salaries could continue.

2. AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION

Unfortunate comments have been made by people pertaining to the current amendment to section 179 of the Constitution which deals with the tenure of the Constitutional Court judges. I want to refute all the allegations that we are amending the Constitution in order to accommodate the current Judge President of the Constitutional Court, Mr Justice Arthur Chaskelson who turns 70 this year in October. The truth is that, unlike Constitutional Court judges, judges of the Supreme Court of Appeal and the High Courts are appointed for life, the principle of once a judge, always a judge applies. Therefore, in our quest for a single judiciary particularly following the Justice Colloquium, which was attended by the representatives from the judiciary and the legal profession, we have decided to put forward this amendment, so that we can bring all judges on the same footing. Indeed I am determined to implementing this amendment which I belief will be in the best interest of the administration of justice.

3. PROPOSED ANTI TERRORISM LEGISLATION:

My colleague, the Minister of Safety and Security, and I made a call early this year for a law against terrorism. I am therefore aware that my office and that of Minister Steve Tshwete are receiving queries in this regard following the terrorists attacks in the United States. I wish to inform you that the government is still much committed to a law of this nature and that the South African Law Commission is at the moment working on a draft Bill, which they hope to submit to me towards the end of this year. One of the things they are investigating is the possibility of consolidating all pieces of legislation dealing with acts of terror into one Bill.

4. INTERCEPTION AND MONITORING BILL

The Bill is currently before the Justice Portfolio Committee as you all are aware. It emanates from an investigation of the Law Commission and seeks to extend the ambit of the main Act, particularly in respect of cellular networks. The Act will furthermore strengthen the law enforcement agencies' power to fight crime. I have taken note of the current debates around the costs implication of the Draft Bill. I, however, wish to reiterate that the Act is fundamental and that government will engage the service providers with a view to reaching an agreement in order for it to be implementable.

5. CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS

I reported to you that my Department was undergoing management changes and furthermore promised that the process would be completed by the end of the year. I am therefore happy to report that the process was completed and is currently being implemented with a Board of Directors already appointed. The inaugural meeting of the Board took place on 5 February 2001 and we are presently finalising our structures and business plans for the current financial year. I am extremely confident that the processes we have witnessed will not only yield significant results, but will also benefit the rest of government.

6. SEPARATION OF FUNCTIONS

The main objective of the Department is to make our courts more efficient and effective. We have therefore, started with the process of separating the administrative, prosecuting and judicial functions. In practice, magistrates have had to perform certain administrative tasks additional to their function as judicial officers. This resulted in their judicial time being compromised and court backlogs being increased. We are fast-tracking the separation of functions at the lower courts -with 472 magistrate courts having being proclaimed countrywide so far.

The Department is in the process of appointing court managers with the necessary skills at the following centres: the Magistrates Offices of Johannesburg, Durban, Port Elizabeth, Pretoria and Western Cape High Court.

7. e-JUSTICE PROGRAMME

The past year saw my Department working intensively to implement our e-Justice programme which was demonstrated to most of you in the very same room where we are. The programme is designed to modernise our management systems and bring these in line with international best practice. The project essentially deals with the development and automation of cases and the management of courts. The system has already been developed and the pilot project will be launched in Durban during the 3rd week of October this year.

8. FINANCE MANAGEMENT

Sound financial administration is critical to good governance. The Financial Admin System, considered by the Department to deal with its vote account, is being rolled out at present. Everything is being done to comply with the new Finance Management Act. The following measures are being taken and some are already operational, to ensure proper management of our budget: re-engineering the systems dealing with the Department's Trust Fund Administration; the rolling out of State Attorney System; the rolling out of a Justice Deposit Account system; and the securing of Cluster Project Manager

9. SEXUAL OFFENCES

The South African Law Commission is busy with a discussion paper on sexual offences. The paper addresses issues such as bail for sexual offenders, making it easier for victims of sexual offences to testify in court, and the sentencing of persons convicted of sexual offences, etc. The draft Bill in this discussion paper will also cover issues of the substantive law on sexual offences on which comment has already been received by the Commission. A discussion paper will soon be released for public comment. Furthermore, a discussion paper on adult prostitution is also receiving the attention of the Commission as well. My Department has recently opened sexual offences courts in Soweto, Cape Town and Mmabatho, in addition to other courts which have been operating since 1999.

I wish to comment briefly on a statement attributed to the National Police Commissioner, Mr Jackie Selebi, that the Domestic Violence Act is unimplementable. Yes, it is correct to say that the Police are encountering some difficulties in implementing the Act. My position, however, is that the law is not only necessary, but more also still at its infancy stage. I want to assure the public that all the departments responsible, i.e. the Police, Justice, Health and Social Development will do everything possible to ensure full implementation of this law.

10. ACCESS TO THE COURTS

I visited many courts in both the cities and the rural parts of the country and the general conditions there are unacceptable. There is for instance, a lack of security and the buildings are dilapidated. For instance, in Kwa-Mashu township near Durban, the court is using an old school building. We are, however, committed as government to addressing this problem. These can be deduced from the good progress we made by building 56 new courtrooms at 19 courts during 1999, as well as a further 88 new court rooms at 28 court buildings during 2000 and 19 new court rooms at 5 court buildings during 2001. A further 10 major building services are in progress, while another 11 buildings will go on tender during the course of this year. I furthermore wish to highlight our success in introducing the integrated seven community safety centres. The centres consisting of all the criminal justice departments, provides services to the community without them having to travel long distances. We have in addition to these, opened justice centres in all the provinces in order to give legal advice to the needy litigants.

11. INTEGRATED JUSTICE SYSTEM

During the parliamentary press briefing on 13 September 2000, I invited you to watch this space and now I am very happy to report on this matter. Whereas the flagship court management project of the Integrated Justice System (IJS) is the Court Process Project, this project has a medium to long-term implementation period. The concept will be established at 26 sites by the end of April 2002. As an interim solution, a semi-automated court and case management system is being implemented at a number of courts where case backlogs are unacceptably high. This initiative, termed the IJS Court Centre Project, aims to provide a single nodal point within the court from where the entire court process is managed. The overall objective is to reduce the average case cycle time.

12. SATURDAY COURTS

1075 cases were finalised on the Additional Court Project in the month of August 2001. This brings the total number of cases (with a verdict) finalised on the Additional Court project to 4612. The Additional Regional Courts finalised more than one case per day per court, and the Additional District Courts as many as 3 cases per day on average. This is more than double the present finalisation rate in courts countrywide. The Saturday courts have finalised 825 cases in August 2001. The Saturday courts have now finalised a total number of 3433 cases since February 2001.

I am aware of the need to reduce the number of awaiting prisoners and therefore wish to assure the Minister of Correctional Services who is in my cluster, that everything is being done to ease the overcrowding in prisons. I want to conclude by drawing your attention to attached additional documents highlighting in detail our achievements since February this year. This includes our legislative programme.